More "It's not what you say white folks, it's what you do..."

I heard from Mel.  You can go  here, here or here if you care to follow this, uh - "discussion."  It's been ongoing, but certainly not fruitless - for me.  As a matter of fact, it reinforces that phrase somebody once said, "People always show themselves to you, you just better recognize 'em when you see 'em."

Guess she's decided to follow that "blank" she shot (see her "Why ask why? I don't know" post for the meaning of that), instead of having the courtesy of hearing my response to this last missive posted below since she chose to close comments on both her posts.  

Normally, I'd chalk something like that up to someone - "saying one thing and then doing another" -  and then just move on, understanding that what they really want to do is talk, have you listen - but not pay attention.  But since she chose to fire her last salvo and leave for whatever reason, I'm posting the end of this drama here - with my reply.  I hate unfinished business.

Quite frankly and for future reference, if anyone really wants to talk about race/racism/racial healing with me, know that one person doesn't get to dictate anything because I believe the narrative should be a "collaborative" effort.  My point is just as valuable as anyone else's.  That's been a huge part of why there's been little if any"moving forward" on "racial healing" to date, IMHO.

Here's Mel from the last emailed post-notifiction I got (and before any "edits" she's since made)...

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Author: Sue & Mel's Cafe Society

Sat 10/24/2009 3:37 PM

Comment:

"It’s seemed more important to you that you tell all your truths, than fully listen to any of mine – or anyone else’s for that matter"

You asked me Deb - I told you.

Are you enjoying all of this, Deb? Yeah you are. That's the thing about blogs isn't, Deb, personal attacks are the norm - hit and runs.

Feeling powerful, yet, Deb? Got your Mojo going on? I hope so.

No surprise why you keep your back to the window, Deb, waiting to pounce, Deb:

"Given what you’ve shared to date (here, at Cinie’s or my blog), I totally understand you’ve got a whole lot of shit that you’ve been dealing with for a long, long time (told you that before too). But don’t project them onto me, because if you do, I will call you on it.

Likewise, if I feel you are not being honest, I will say so,

(Seems you like the head of the table, and every seat in the room, Deb?)

...and expect you to do the same, because without truth? Just tilting at windmills, Mel and I don’t have any time for that. Too much real shit I care about to do that."

(Seems you like you get to project your truth, determine real shit and critique the tilt on my windmills, Deb, but feel "offended" on asking about your own tilts? pfffft!)

Sell that bullshit to someone else, Deb. I'll own my shit. You can try and shove my own "shit" down my throat to choke me on it.

But you can't put enough garnishments on your own to make me swallow all of it, no matter how fast you serve it.

From pumapac to Cinie (I haven't read your early beginnings) - we all seem to sound like a bunch of psychopaths trying to voice our "truths" until we figure out our own voice.

Gee! I thought a whole lot of Snark with a little substance was the new "cold-blooded, blow-hard journalism" everyone seems to relate so well to.
My focus just happens to be social oppression with a restaurant theme, rather than penis whacking with a political twist with a paw.

Give me a little time - I'll gather a few more "kiss, kiss, you're so brilliant, important to the "cause" and make me feel so gutsy and understood. I'll protect you from anyone who steps on your loooong veil, doesn't belong on your catwalk and isn't approved of by you, like you've approved of me!"

Give me a break, Deb. We all are just not that damned good, important or flawless to be "THE way and THE truth"...

...just a thread in the fabric of human perspective, grappling with how do undo our "renaissance man" - the age of reliance upon all of that highly over-emphasized "thought" and "reasoning" - that it has done all of our asses in by inhibiting us from evolving as a greater "humanity".

I'll take one Joan Baez" over thousands of bloggers, political critics and human rights "campaigns" on single focused issues. She brings "caring" about humanity into far greater perspective than all of them combined. She checks her ego at the door.

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And my reply....

Nobody's personally attacking you, Mel. "Hit and runs???" If you check your time-stamps, you'll see I've been here - the whole time - sharing my POV in response to yours.  You know that "discourse/dialogue" thing?  Oh, I forgot, only what you think matters.

Anywa-y-y-y......YOU said something untrue and YOU invited me to "call you on it"  if, as you also said - you were, "failing somewhat on here on “trying to make my journey about getting there, whole with as little collateral damage as possible.”  YOU said, "I would like to have that feedback from you." Don't remember saying any of that right Mel?

And by the way, truth doesn't cause collateral damage - lies do. I say again, this is your shit, particularly since I was doing exactly what you asked.

Our definitions of power are obviously and un-surprisingly different. Hate to break it to you, but I was "powerful" lo-o-o-n-n-ng before you ever showed up. Don't need your permission, OR involvement for that. Does this make YOU "feel powerful"  Mel?   If it does, didn't anybody tell you that attempted, verbal, foot-on-neck beat-downs such as this,  stopped working on most Black folk a long time ago?

"...rather than penis whacking with a political twist with a paw."

Don't know WHAT THAT  means!

I'm not "offended" in the least. I gave you my POV, isn't that what you wanted? I'm not trying to "shove" anything down your throat my dear, but know - I will NOT be the "shovee."  I'm not selling anything. That you think so, just shows where your head really is as you focus on "social oppression."  Seems everybody else is selling something, but - I, Mel, am the only one who's being sincere. Please.

"From pumapac to Cinie (I haven’t read your early beginnings) – we all seem to sound like a bunch of psychopaths trying to voice our “truths” until we figure out our own voice."

You have a right to your POV, but IMO, only some of us sound that way.

"Seems you like the head of the table, and every seat in the room, Deb?"

There you go projecting again. As I told you before, I sit with my back to the door - both metaphorically and literally - so I can be aware of all that's going on around me - and coming at me. Don't know if it's a "Black" thing, borne out of 100s of years of bullshit or Feng Shui - either way it works for me.

"Give me a little time – I’ll gather a few more “kiss, kiss, you’re so brilliant, important to the “cause” and make me feel so gutsy and understood. I’ll protect you from anyone who steps on your loooong veil, doesn’t belong on your catwalk and isn’t approved of by you, like you’ve approved of me!"

Let me be very clear here Mel because you've obviously got some shit twisted.  I'm going to say this very slowly for you so there's no misunderstanding: 

I neither SOLICITED nor NEED  either "accolades," assistance or acceptance from you to walk this walk.  I know who I am and I already  know I'm important to the "cause," no matter how much, or how little YOU think I bring to the table. Seems it is you, who's having a real problem with "importance and or relevance," IMO.  I've not exercised any APPROVAL of you.  Unlike you, I understand that approval is solely in the purview of each individual.  My issue is, and always has been, with the untruth you told.

Hope you're real clear on that.  Enjoying the conversation of someone who seems to "get it," is hardly a search for approval.  It is an attempt at - going forward together, better.

"Give me a break, Deb. We all are just not that damned good, important or flawless to be “THE way and THE truth”…

I never professed to be "that damned good" or "flawless," though I am important - to me. Funny you should say that though Mel, just two days ago, you said this!:

"It takes a highly experienced, fearless and gifted woman to speak on an issue and hit alll cylinders.

You have all of those attributes, Deb. I wish I could just do a post on your comments. They are so pointed and make things so perfectly clear.

Now which am I supposed to believe?

That whole "truth-telling thing" is something else isn't it?

If you take my "truths" for ego - that again is your shit Mel (almost sounds as if you think I'm kind of "uppity" there girl!)  If Joan Baez is where you want to be - have at it. Maybe she can get across to you the importance of  - the truth - as the first building block in any real and lasting attempt at "healing" anything.

Not what you "say" white folks...it's what you do

In the span of less than eight hours, strange and connected things have occurred that I needed to "carve in stone" as it were.  Always good to have landmarks along this journey of mine - keeps me on course.

I'd been having some interesting conversations about race and racism on another blog, with Mel, a white woman who seemed eager to "own her shit" and move forward better, together.  After spending a lot of yesterday commenting back-and-forth on our respective blogs, I decided to leave her last comment to me unanswered until morning, and went to bed.

When I checked my email this morning, I'd gotten this - "Dr. Andrew Manis: “When are we going to get over it?”  - from my former, downstairs neighbor in DC when I was going to grad school who once told me, "You like pain, huh?"  She was referring to the MANY TIMES  I'd bent her damn ear talking about why money is not the most important thing in the world to me, race and racism, white people and Black people and - why The Changeling, with his mask-wearing self was no friend of mine. 

Pretty interesting conversations given she's a 57 year-old Black woman, born in New Orleans and raised in Detroit, with a placard on a little chain on the passenger-side dashboard of her little, blue VW Bug that reads, "This car is for Black passengers only!" and - loves The Changeling and his family.  As a  matter of fact, it was she who gave me the the little sign where I whited-out the "s" on "Daughters" and scanned in that you see in the upper right corner of my blog.  She got them both at the same time.  But her philosophy was, "We gotta make that money, we don't have time to worry about all that!"  So, I was pretty surprised when she sent me the, "SOMETHING TO REALLY PASS ON!" piece about Dr. Manis.

After reading it and thinking - "He sounds just like Mel." - I decided to answer her comment that I'd let sit until morning, but - it was gone, along with several others we'd both made on two of her posts.  I thought, "Hm-m-m-m, how odd!"  I knew I'd left her with a question that might have required some thought, but I didn't think it was that deep she'd delete our conversations. 

Rather than explaining all that transpired, I'll just post it all here and you draw your own conclusions:

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Mel, I came over to respond to your comment in response to my "point-to-ponder question - "Why would you think I'd gone to all "White" schools?" - from last night.

Remember you said, "...What is interesting to me is that I have little recall, Deb, of that "experience", except that I was in my early teens and from the day I started to school, I felt like I was in a strange dream. She finally just withdrew me until we could move. I have no stories to tell from that time - none - they are just a blur.

Was that ever how being in predominantly "White" schools felt, Deb? Like being in a strange and uncertain land at times? Based upon that brief time, I've often wondered."

I told you, "The blur thing is interesting - and a point to ponder, as is this: "Was that ever how being in predominantly "White" schools felt, Deb?"

However, it seems you've deleted ALL the comments not only to this post, but the Baldwin/Baez one as well. Luckily I saved it because I do want to respond - since we're being real and all. (BTW, jj's "review" comment of the first chapter'll sure look nice on a book jacket huh?)
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I told you I hadn't ever gone to an all-white school until grad school- last year, and you replied:

Author: itsjustmel
Comment:
Didn't know your age, Deb, or, if you went to private schools, or if areas you have lived in were divided into "districts" where the majority in certain grade levels was predominately "white".

I don't consider YOU "collateral damage" but that the collateral damage of relating my exposure to the hypocrisy, even today, causes "unnecessary" pain.

The possibility of "unnecessary pain" is the "collateral damage" that I was referring to.

The "privilege/supremacy" delusion was one of the biggest eyeopeners for me. It made no sense whatsoever because that "lack of privilege and supremacy" you mentioned was superimposed by a dominating - not "dominate" - race.

Yet, the power it maintains is oppressive in many forms. It is hard to see that when you have been raised to believe that.

"Suddenly" you awaken to how senseless that whole belief system is and the human struggles it has caused. It is hard to comprehend how you ever believed that, really. Yet the imprint is there and you can't go back and speak up when you were silent or step up to the plate when it was the right thing to do, or go back and get involved now that you recognize the many missed opportunities to do so.

But... maybe, just maybe... Deb, something good will come from making an effort today.
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When I read the first paragraph, I couldn't believe it. I certainly have my own idea why you would automatically assume I'd attended all-"White" schools, but I wanted to hear your "truth." Instead, you said this:

"Didn't know your age, Deb, or, if you went to private schools, or if areas you have lived in were divided into "districts" where the majority in certain grade levels was predominately "white."

Knowing that on several occasions, we've discussed exactly the opposite of what you said, and recently - like when I replied to you on 10/16 at my place about BLM: "It was - in my then predominantly Black, public, high school; by my Black English teacher. (We did move on up, but divorce, and Black mobility ushered in by white flight have a funny way of changing a child's life over time).

And on the "Race Card" post, which I can't seem to find right now, I told you about being 53 and going to an all-Black, Catholic school with all-Black nuns!